Egypt’s torture scandal is getting increasing international coverage thanks to the fact that a) it was caught on video and b) it was blogged: FT, Le Monde, Le Figaro, and others are covering the scandal, which has taken a turn for the worse yesterday with al-Jazeera reporter Howeida Taha arrested as she was leaving the country with tapes for a documentary on torture. The tapes included some reconstruction of torture scenes — a standard tool in documentary film-making — but of course security is accusing her of fabricating lies about Egypt’s sensitive, gentle police officers. So alarmed are some bloggers who covered the scandal from the beginning — such as our own Hossam el-Hamalawy, who has his thoughts on these developments here — that late last night I received an email from Wael Abbas, the one-man photo and video news agency of the Egyptian blogosphere, with the subject line “I might get arrested tomorrow!” We’ve been warned.
In the meantime, we note the predictable petty vindictiveness of the regime in the way it has decided to reward the whistle-blower and victim of this affair, Emad al-Kebir, by sentencing him to three months of prison for “resisting the authorities” — yes, the same authorities that beat and raped him in custody. HRW has the details.
I sure am glad I live in a “moderate” Arab country, Ms. Rice.
I sure am glad I live in a “moderate� Arab country, Ms. Rice.
You just couldn’t resist finding a way to blame this all on the US, could you? Why did you have to throw that last line in there? Did it make you feel good? Do you think you gain support from Americans this way? Or do you just not give a shit who you alienate?
I don’t give a shit who I alienate, I am an American (which is why I don’t give a shit – it’s the American way!), I threw that line in there specifically to piss off people like you, and Condoleeza Rice, currently on trip speaking to the Arab world’s leading tyrants, has made too much of a deal about democracy to the Arab world not to have people like me call her out on it. Does that answer your questions?
Your blog is becoming essential reading. I’ve linked to you in my latest post and my sidebar. What a great find. Nice to meet you Issandr.
Craig- Egypt has been cited as an example of a “moderate” Arab country and an example of what a Middle Eastern democracyy could look like. Rice has yet to comment on the egregious violations of free speech and on the abuses committed by the Egyptian police force- of a state which YOUR tax dollars help support. IN addition, because it is such an effecient “moderate” state with such a conscientious police and secret service, we, the US, send people to be interrogated in 3rd party interrogations- some of whom, as we are now finding out didn’t do anything.
What is acceptable in a “democracy” that we support overseas would be criminal here. Why, Craig, should we want less for our “fellow democrats” than we would want for ourselves? Would you accept a state that arrests and tortures jouranlists, demonstrators- has both national and regional governments rife with corruption?Would you accept a state that could pull you off the street (especially if you had no real connections), arrest you at will and possibly beat you? I doubt it. Than why do you pay for it?
I’m not one of those people who thinks you should love America to be an American (for that matter, I’m not an American myself). But, really – what’s wrong with you? If you find the US so loathsome, why on Earth do you have the citizenship? One would think you’d like to purge yourself of the filthy stain as soon as possible.
This blog is essential reading for much of the news, which you can’t get anywhere else (I would never have heard of the anti-Mubarak regime demonstrations here in Montreal otherwise, which I gladly attended). The political analysis, about which I will say nothing since I have nothing polite to say, we could do without (you can tell I’m Canadian).
Adam- you may live North of US, but you don’t know us very well. It’s about, to paraphrase MLK, getting the US to live out the nature of its creed, as well as encouraging “we, the people” to be aware of what our “government” is doing in our name as well as suggesting that we the people need to make the government (which is here to serve us and not us it) receptive to the people’s values and wishes. And if we say we support democracy, democracy movements, etc., then we need to put our money and efforts where our mouth is.
Zazou, I’m all for all of that but the question was why on Earth you would actively seek US citizenship (unless Issander has it by birth, I have no idea) when you are repulsed by everything about the American government. This kind of thing just fuels the xenophobic, love-it-or-leave-it talk that seems to be getting increasingly worse.
In passing, I’m not sure that having the US government do what people want is such a good idea – how often do you see polls suggesting something other than massive support for Israel among the US public? As for supporting democracy in the Middle East, the US has always been in a hard place. Backing Mubarak is clearly immoral, but given that the regime has liquidated every single opposition movement except the Islamists since 1952 (having been a Soviet ally for much of that time), the alternative is likely worse. There’s very little the administration can do to pressure Egypt, short of working to eliminate aid to Egypt. But do you think the Israelis (and hence the US) want to risk an Egyptian revolutionary government with no commitment to Camp David in power in Cairo?
I don’t think we disagree on the fundamental point that US foreign policy towards Arab states is abhorrent. I just don’t see what the childish jabs at Rice, et. al. accomplish.
I can’t speak for Issandr, but I am a US citizen by birth, so, as far as that is concerned, screw the xenophobes. The current government has set up a binary which is unacceptable- you either get with the program or you are no Ameriican. Screw that, too. Bush has announced he doesn’t give a rat’s ass what the Congress wants- since he doesn’t read all that much. maybe Laura can read him the secton of the Constitution that lays out his part in the balance of power.
As for this level of dissent- it is very American- and very much in the tradition of the conscious, intellectual opposition.
As for the US public’s support of Israel- a certain amount of that is manufactured, a certain amount is based on fear and ignorance, and a certain amount is based on guilt and a sense of the second coming. Israel has not abided by the Camp Dvid accords or a number of other agreements, so that needs to come off the table. What the US public does not know or understand, is that there is a growing voice of dissent to be heard in Israeli society- in the military, in the universities and among the middel class- and most seem not to be US-born Jews- hence not heard that much in teh US.
The average American is laboring under the illusion that Israel is a mini-US-like democracy which is fighting for its life amidst a sea of mean Muslim Palestinians.
What Americans don’t hear, for example, when Azmi Bishara gets sanctioned for talking about the need for Israel to stop treating its Arab citizens as 2nd class, is that Bishara is a Christian Palestinian. They hear an Arab name and assume its a Moslem making trouble. They also don’t know enough history to realize that the Christian Palestinian population, at least, was very much in evidence in, to use Golda Meir’s statement, ” a land without people.” So, in some things, the American people are idiots.
But the vote was very clear this time, the public is not interestied in participating in a protracted war.
Adam – I don’t see where you get the idea that I am “repulsed” by America. I am Moroccan by birth and was naturalized at 12. I went from having no political rights to many and was exposed to what I think is one of the great democratic systems on the planet (although I think it has become a deeply flawed one because of the lack of campaign finance reform and the legalized corruption of the US Congress.)
As an American as well as someone who works and lives in the Arab world, I am rather alarmed by the Bush administration’s policies. It does not make me anti-American to criticize them and to point out that the inconsistencies of Rice’s foreign policy — she has been, like most of her colleagues, one of the worst practicioners of US foreign policy in decade. And incidentally, I grew up in US embassies and very much come from that foreign policy establishment. I regularly meet American friends and relatives, some of whom have served for decades in the US military at senior levels, who are aghast at what’s happening to the country and the Bush-Cheney polciies in the region.
So I don’t think I’m going to let a Canadian tell me to just give up my citizenship.
Not sure I understand why you people are debating America-loving-or-hating, when all that Issandr seems to have done is to make a sarcastic (and very justified, by American democratic values) comment on the Bush administration’s definition of “moderate” Arab regimes. You’ve fallen into that silly troll Craig’s assumption that “criticise American govt policy = you don’t deserve to be American.”
Sorry, SP, one last weigh-in, I swear. Actually, I don’t think it should matter if you are a born citizen or a naturalized citizen. Dissent is healthy for any society (and that would include Egypt), and it is definitely healthy for the citizenry to hold a democracy to the promise of its higher self- and, this is perhaps for Criag and Adam, those so naturalized hold an even higher stake in the values and creed the US professes to hold dear, because they chose to become citizens in the belief that this profession is sincere. Becoming a citizen means switching citizenship, not dumping your brain along with your old passport.
Issandr and Zazzou,
Nice post guys keep it up…
I should probably repeat that I think that everyone is entitled to criticize the US administration, whether one is born American, naturalized, or not an American at all (like me). I certainly never “told” anyone to give up their citizenship. If I intimated that I believe that dissent is un-American, then I did not mean to. That’s the last thing I believe (although I do think that Michael Moore-style dissent of the ‘I will lie to smear my enemies because they’re so evil’ sort is reprehensible, because it de-legitimizes the real thing).
All I wanted to know was why you’d want to be a citizen of a country you hate. I believe Issander has responded to that by explaining that he doesn’t hate the US but just the Bush administration. Thanks, that explains that.
Incidentally, we’re not going to agree on campaign finance reform either (one of the worst ideas on Earth). All it does is muzzle free speech and give a huge boost to the incumbent by guaranteeing that he (or she) will be the only one whose name is in the public eye. McCain-Feingold should have been titled the “Incumbency Protection Act.” Obviously that’s a whole other story and very far from the Middle East (I wish Egypt’s biggest electoral flaw was that the same TWO parties trade power).
Adam,
So I am Egyptian. I am repulsed by the policies of the Egyptian government. Should I renounce my citizenship? Should Issander expect “true Americans” to tell him to fuck off if he doesn’t like American politics. In the US when you get in a cab, chat with an Ethiopian cabdriver or whatever, who is complaining about the system, the reaction of my American friends has invariably been similar to yours “why doesn’t he go home if he doesn’t like things here?” they would wonder. But “true Americans” can complain as much as they want. They’re never told to go home. If this is not xenophia, Adam, what is it?