There had been a heated debate since yesterday among the blog contributors themselves, and among the readers regarding the Hizbollah operation.
Issandr posted something yesterday, which was critical and full of insults against Hizbollah, and then took it down after several critical comments from friends.
I posted something today, that was also full of insults against those who insulted the operation, which I support, and think it’s the right thing to do… but then I took it down after speaking with other friends.
I’m gonna write something longer over the weekend to explain my views regarding Hizbollah’s operation.
LOL
Hossam,
I disagree with almost everything you wrote in your original post, BUT I also disagree with your decision to pull it down. These are very difficult and grim days in the Middle East. Your views and those of your critics are legitimate and while difficult for some to swallow, they are important for everyone.
I am looking forward to reading the further explication of your view that you have promised, but I think your self-censorship is unjustified.
Understandable that this would provoke strong feelings. I find it helpful and informative to read all your different reactions, btw, as someone who knows very little about the Lebanese situation.
I disagreed with Issander’s first post titled “Thank you Hizbullah” but his argument was very valid and it is indeed the argument of some Lebanese factions. There was no need to take it down. For your post, yes insulting commentators doesn’t help build arguments. Again, there was no need to take it down.. you could’ve edited comments. Finally ba2a as a reader I hate reading posts and commenting on them knowing I’d find em deleted tomorrow. Once published it is not yours anymore guys! Consider the readers rights!
I don’t understand the concept “once published, it’s not yours anymore.” Who says?
Blogging encourages us to print the first thing we think of when provoked. However sometimes being diplomatic is called for.
I personally should know by now that posting in the beginning of a crisis always results in heated words. Post in haste, revise and apologize at length.
I applaud the fellows here at The Arabist for taking down hotheaded statements; I await your more thoughtful analysis.
I’m a Lebanese of Christian background, NOT from Ashrafiyeh, NEVER wearing Gucci or any other designer, and I am not happy that Hizballah provoked this latest. Not happy that Israel does what it does, but not at all happy at Hizballah either. I keep saying, and the rule applies all around – obey international law and many difficulties sort themselves out.
Meanwhile, civilians suffer the consequences of bloodthirsty leadership.
“Finally ba2a as a reader I hate reading posts and commenting on them knowing I’d find em deleted tomorrow. Once published it is not yours anymore guys! Consider the readers rights!”
Nora : exactly
I don’t think my comment was of the insulting type , But if it was, I apologize
I don’t respect ur decision of deleting the whole thing .. And I don’t understand how u can’t tolerate criticism .. and criticize each and everything freely ..
Anyway ,this is ur blog .. U’re free to do whatever u want here
I’m just wondering whether a continued Israeli bombardment esp on strategic targets in Beirut and the Lebnese government’s seeming inability to reign in Hezboallah could lead to a slide back to some sort of civil strife?
I’m curious about the earlier posts (since removed) that have been jumping on the back Hizbollah.
I don’t think the criticism levelled towards them is 100% justified and I think it further leads novice readers of Middle East affairs (and those who hate Arab nationalist/resistance groups) to demonise Arabs in general.
Perhaps people who care about a just and a fair solution for the Palestinian people are partly to blame for a continued anti-Palestinian and anti-Arab sentiment. We’ve allowed a situation to develop to the point where this issue is viewed as black and white. ie. Hizbollah, Hamas et al are the bad guys while Israel on the other hand is always the victim.
Too many people believe that Israel is ‘fighting a war on terror’ while Palestinians are seen as murderous villains. This despite the fact that it is the Palestinians who live under Israeli occupation, it is the Palestinians who are suffering massive loss of life from Israeli aggression. And it is the Palestinians who have become increasingly economically desperate due to Israel’s refusal to pay funds owed to the Palestinian government and people. Have we forgotten that it was Palestinian people who were forcibly removed (if not killed) from their land? Right, so who’s the victim again?
Yes, Israeli civilians have been killed and any civilian death is unfortunate but how come there is little care for the number of Palestinian deaths not to mention the ratio…its something like 4 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli… Mind you, it used to be something like 10 to 1 a few years back, so perhaps its becoming a ‘fairer’ fight…. But somehow I fail to see how fair the fight is when one side has support from a super power, modern weapons and equipment, and of course, the odd nuclear weapon.
The Palestinians meanwhile have some guns, some sling-shots and stones… and of course some makeshift explosive devices and strapped to their own bodies. I’m not saying we need to arm both sides equally, but this situation is going from ridiculous to completely mad.
By attacking Lebanon, Israel is showing that it has either completely lost the plot vis a vis foreign relations and international law or desperately wants to get Syria and Iran involved in a war in order to force the U.S.’s hand to continue its agenda of regime change and ‘Democratisation of the Middle East’.
I can understand the frustration of the current situation in Lebanon right now, I feel for the Lebanese people and can only imagine what this is doing to their economy as we speak. But to solely blame Hizbollah or other Palestinian resistance groups is an oversimplification of what’s happening on the ground and is unfair to the people caught up in this wicked mess.
When Palestinians kill Israeli civilians the world condemns it. When Palestinians kill Israeli soldiers or hold them for ransom…the world condemns them again. But when Israel kills Palestinian people or practices its ‘targeted assassinations’, criticism is scant.
So why is Israel allowed to have legitimate targets while Palestinians are not? Something like 28 people were killed today in Southern Lebanon, including 10 kids. This, in response to the killing of seven Israeli soldiers and the capture of two more.
Even in Iraq…not exactly the bastion of good governance or a pleasant occupying power; but we see U.S. troops being held accountable for their actions… albeit not enough times.
But Israel gets to do what it wants, when it wants…and with loads of impunity.
I’d argue that Israeli soldiers are fair play. In fact, its the best policy for the Palestinian resistance groups. They are certainly in need of enhancing their public image in the Western world and they won’t be able to improve it by killing Israeli civilians. But hitting at Israel’s military establishment is, and should be a different story. However judging by the pathetic international reaction so far, the Palestinians can do no right.
Welcome to the ultimate Catch-22.
I think alot of radicals are siding with hizbullah but hizbullah has many hidden agendas.
The O man makes some interesting points. Evidently, in his world, it’s fine to cross an international boundary, kill and kidnap soldiers, and then expect the offended party to concede to your demands. In my world, those are acts of war. The arab world has wanted Israel out of Gaza, and years ago, out of Lebanon. The reward for conceding those territories is to be attacked daily from the very land just given up. In my world, all territory won by a nation which had been attacked would be lost to that nation forever. The problem is, none of the Palestinian’s arab brothers want them either. They’re more than happy to fund the Palestinian cause, let them die , but won’t accept them as immigrants to other arab countries.
Attack Israel, suffer the consequences. Hopefully the Israeli memory is long enoough to remember the consequences of showing mercy and restraint. Damascus and Tehran should get ready, keep sunglasses handy, and cover your ears. It could be bright, and Really loud.
G.Patton,
No point in asking where “your worldâ€� is or where you get your ideas from?Kill and kidnap soldiers: soldiers are not innocent children, innocent women and men like the civilian populations of Palestine or Lebanon held hostage for decades by the most murderous and inhuman army in the world. How dare you compare those two criminals to the innocent civilians, the victims of your “greatâ€� country? Israel is showing mercy and restraint? I would laugh if the situation was not desperate. What will it take to make you people finally see what your “great nationâ€� is doing in your name? You should take a look at the other side, see how children are killed, mutilated, jailed, how men and women are suffering just because they were born on the wrong side of the fence. Have you forgotten your past? What’s the difference between your people then and the oppressed population now? The past has been used as an excuse for the horrifying present. Does this mean that as long as you have a past and a future, the present does not matter? Is it really a small price to pay if you want to exist? Your ideas are the product of propaganda and manipulation, they are not based on reality nor reason. Every decent human being should be able to see the injustice and the opression inflicted on the innocent people of Palestine and Lebanon.You are still supporting an occupation that has no right to exist. The Palestinians have the same rights as any other human being, they do not need to live as refugees while they have their own land.
There is no reward for occupation and there will be no reward for violence and aggression.Your view is clouded by hate and by ignorance of the real issue here: the right for the Palestinians to have their own state, the right for freedom , the right to live in their own country. As for the fact that no Arab country wants the Palestinians: nobody wanted the Jewish people more than 50 years ago that is why they created this situation in the first place. This is the legacy of colonialism with its disregard for the Arab people’s rights as usual. You should try to look at this from a human point of view, no matter what your origin is or where “your world” might be, this reaction is not justified. The two soldiers were sent there to kill not bring flowers or love to the civilians, they know the risks. What about the thousands of prisoners in the Israel? Once again, the guilt lies on the oppressed, the world should be ashamed, the international community should put blame on those who created this conflict in the first place, those who kill innocents every day while fighting “terror”.
They keep calling for the application of the UN resolutions, they should start by asking for the application of resolution 242 voted in 1967 for example.
We only want to see what we want to see, because seeing the truth is admitting one’s guilt, admitting that your “great nation “was build on blood and terror. If I was Jewish I would be ashamed that those who were persecuted yesterday are the persecutors of today. I would not allow these crimes to be perpetrated in my name. As I am only human, I feel for those who loose their loved ones, those who loose their lives, those who loose their land and their freedom. We as humans should start searching for justice and truth instead of following ignorance. We should start promoting peace by having some compassion and understanding for those oppressed in our name. Open your eyes and you shall see that there is indeed two sides to every story.
well where do I start. I can not get into this as deep as some of you guys because before this I didn’t pay much attention to the rest of the world. That’s been my loss.
anyhow the most I can say is I see a lot of rules being put in place to keep the peace but these rules seem to be doubled standards. Take into consideration that I have only been following these events for about 4 hours.
How can you tell me I can’t target specific points on your land,then turn around and do the same?
How does one justify the killing, and murdering of innocent children and women and men and soldiers, yet speak down to another group for the same senseless acts?
These days being a terrorist is categorized by how much money you don’t have and also by how little people favor and support your cause.
If I am a rich liar who can buy the minds of a people then I can blow your whole country up and it’s okay because it’s for a good cause…….chaching! can you see the dollar signs?
If I am a people of little or no financial stability and I can not buy the minds of a people so I blow up stuff to bring the attention needed to my cause I am a terrorist.
I have learned in the past four to five hours that there is even a class difference in terrorist. You can be a rich terrorist who is seen as a world power who is striving for world peace or be a poor terrorist who is striving for a more soul felt cause and is willing to die to get it or atleast get closer.
hi
wath is Hizbollah site ?
http://www.?